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Group's Census Promo Called 'Blasphemous'
All Things Crack
Written by metallurge   
Tuesday, 15 December 2009 17:36

Spotted at USA Today:

A push to spread the gospel about the 2010 Census this Christmas is stoking controversy with a campaign that links the government count to events surrounding the birth of Jesus. The National Association of Latino Elected Officials is leading the distribution to churches and clergy of thousands of posters that depict the arrival of Joseph and a pregnant Mary in Bethlehem more than 2,000 years ago.

[Ed note: yes, there is a graphic of the poster at the linked article]

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PineHall  - Blasphemous?   |2009-12-16 09:53:39
Quote:
"This is how Jesus was born," the poster states. "Joseph and Mary participated in the Census."

I don't see how that poster is "blasphemous".

Quote:
The Rev. Miguel Rivera, chairman of the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders, says invoking the name of Jesus to promote the 2010 Census is "blasphemous" and "violates the concept of separation of church and state." Using the name of Jesus for "a political and secular intention, it is definitely an assault against our Christian faith," Rivera says.

Should the name of Jesus be used only in religious contexts? I see no problem with the historical context of Jesus in the poster and the secular intention.
emperorbma   |2009-12-16 14:42:33
PineHall wrote:
I don't see how that poster is "blasphemous".


They probably don't like that Jesus is being used for advertising purposes and have a few axes to grind against the Census itself considering the demographic of the complaint.
laika  - Bebe Heyzoos, Mary and... Josephine?   |2009-12-16 11:54:09
Quote:
...thousands of posters that depict the arrival of Joseph and a pregnant Mary in Bethlehem more than 2,000 years ago.


whoever is leading the donkey also looks pregnant.
OrionBlastar  - When a man has a belly like that   |2009-12-16 17:16:16
it is called a paunch. Apparently Joseph had a beer belly?
OrionBlastar  - Since most Latinos are Catholic   |2009-12-16 17:18:58
and believe in the Virgin Mother of Jesus this is a good PR stunt to get them to participate in the Census. I don't see how it is blasphemous unless you want to go back to the Ten Commandments and no graven images of things in Heaven or things below. But then we'd have to get rid of Nativity scenes as well as pictures of Jesus and crucifixes.
emperorbma  - iconoclasm is, like, so 7th century...   |2009-12-16 18:03:25
... and, of course, the Incarnation throws a wrench in the strictest interpretations of the Commandment against graven images, since God has taken on human flesh: i.e. "depicted Himself." In a similar vein, even the Hebrews had iconography: consider the "Bronze Serpent" of Moses. (It was, however, aptly destroyed by the King of Judah once it did fall into becoming an idolatrous distraction from God)

Agreeing with the Ecumenical Councils, Veneration is not idolatry. Note that I'm saying this as a member of one of the few Protestant groups that officially recognizes and acknowledges that there is such a distinction. (Although we obviously think that the Papacy went to far with it...)
holmegm  - re: iconoclasm is, like, so 7th century...   |2009-12-17 09:52:13
emperorbma wrote:
... and, of course, the Incarnation throws a wrench in the strictest interpretations of the Commandment against graven images, since God has taken on human flesh: i.e. "depicted Himself."


But how does God "depicting Himself" make it OK for us to depict Him?
WebbedFeetOfClay   |2009-12-17 10:23:28
because with the incarnation God actually has an image to depict, which he did not before.
(though of course religious imagery and statuary was still permissible even before that if we look at the cherubim in the adytum)

consequently, the incarnation as image is one of the reasons that many Orthodox jews consider all christians to be idolaters.
holmegm  - re:   |2009-12-17 10:44:15
WebbedFeetOfClay wrote:
because with the incarnation God actually has an image to depict, which he did not before.


Yeah, I get that, but He still never said we could do it. The problem wasn't that we didn't have a live model. We were told not to do it.

WebbedFeetOfClay wrote:

(though of course religious imagery and statuary was still permissible even before that if we look at the cherubim in the adytum)


As directed by God, sure.



This is a tangent of course (the story is not about idolatry) ... but always an interesting one.
emperorbma   |2009-12-17 15:57:41
holmegm wrote:
Yeah, I get that, but He still never said we could do it. The problem wasn't that we didn't have a live model. We were told not to do it.


Scriptural Context:
Quote:
Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 26:1)


This is not saying we cannot create icons. It says that we cannot create an idol and worship it in place of the Lord. To wit, anything that one worships in place of God (even a false interpretation of who God is) is idolatry.

Nevertheless, are icons meant to be worshiped in place of God? Not at all! In fact, they would be meaningless if that were true.

Rather, an icon is meant to serve as a reminder of what God has done or to remind us of a life that God has touched with His Gospel so that we may be spurred to greater faith in Him whose grace is being remembered. Icons do not and cannot replace God. They serve as a tool to focus our worship on God.

Even Martin Luther supports the use of an icon as a tool to focus one's worship on God, mind you. He even says something to the effect that humans need imagery to comprehend certain things.
emperorbma   |2009-12-17 16:13:46
To wit, Luther specifically said:
Quote:
I am not of the opinion that through the Gospel all the arts should be banished and driven away, as some zealots want to make us believe; but I wish to see them all, especially music, in the service of Him Who gave and created them... I have myself heard those who oppose pictures, read from my German Bible. … But this contains many pictures of God, of the angels, of men, and of animals, especially in the Revelation of St. John, in the books of Moses, and in the book of Joshua. We therefore kindly beg these fanatics to permit us also to paint these pictures on the wall that they may be remembered and better understood, inasmuch as they can harm as little on the walls as in books. Would to God that I could persuade those who can afford it to paint the whole Bible on their houses, inside and outside, so that all might see; this would indeed be a Christian work. For I am convinced that it is God’s will that we should hear and learn what He has done, especially what Christ suffered. But when I hear these things and meditate upon them, I find it impossible not to picture them in my heart. Whether I want to or not, when I hear, of Christ, a human form hanging upon a cross rises up in my heart: just as I see my natural face reflected when I look into water. Now if it is not sinful for me to have Christ’s picture in my heart, why should it be sinful to have it before my eyes? (Ref; Martin Luther's Preface for Chorgesangbuch by Johann Walter, 1524)


P.S. This was a very hard quote to source (and that's why I eventually chose the specific link I did as it was the only one that has the source name) I wasn't gonna be cheap just because it's quoted in Wikipedia.

P.P.S. (Note to self: [citation needed] needed) ;)
laika   |2009-12-16 17:45:21
emperorbma wrote:
... and, of course, the Incarnation throws a wrench in the strictest interpretations of the Commandment against graven images, since God has taken on human flesh: i.e. "depicted Himself."


literally presenting Himself in a particular human form. now, that, my friend, is an interesting observation. and actually wouldn't be the first time, IIRC.
emperorbma   |2009-12-16 18:05:52
Let no one say I have learned nothing from the Orthodox, since I'm kind of borrowing that page from you guys. :)
holmegm   |2009-12-17 09:54:45
There is something quite ... unsavory about it.
metallurge   |2009-12-17 12:33:36
Very good choice of words. Yes. If I could put my finger on the "why?", I'd say it has to do with worldly authorities using the Bible to point out their worldly authority is God-given. It seems opportunistic and self-serving to me.

I mean, come on, census is a word with pretty strongly negative underlying Biblical connotations. To me, census speaks of tribute/taxation, of occupation by foreign powers, of sin.

I think that putting a silhouette of baby Jesus on a census poster is pretty much tasteless and disrespectful.
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