As some of you may know, I've been having trouble acclamating to the church I joined just a few months ago. After an arguement that ensued shortly after service, I decided that it might be time for me to leave. I believe that a building does not make a church, it's the people that reside in it... and if I can't feel comfortable with the group of people in that building, then I'm not really apart of the church, correct? I mentioned on X, how I didn't trust the pastor enough to tell him my issues, and after many attempts, I failed to relate to other congressional members who didn't think it "right" for someone like me to live the way I do, or to come to church "solo"... whatever that means... anyways, I'm worried about joining another church so soon after, since, in late august, I'll be moving once again when I transfer to another college... what should I do? I don't even know what the point of church is anymore really, it feels like a chore that I'd rather push off, and I'm not so sure I even want to join another church now... but I still believe in God, and scripture... any advice?

Comments

Search

emperorbma   |2008-04-21 19:41:12 To start with, I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out at the church you were going to. Quote: and if I can't feel comfortable with the group of people in that building, then I'm not really apart of the church, correct? Short answer: Sometimes. We need to be careful here. The belongingness is certainly an important aspect of being a member of a Church, but we should not take that to mean that we should not try to hear out an honest criticism from our fellow Christian. I'll try to explain what I mean in a parable: The Church is much like a family. If you saw your sister making a mistake, you would seek to help her to realize her mistakes and to help her out of it. However, you would not do this by demeaning her or attacking her. Instead, you would make clear that you disagree with her behavior but in a manner which shows very clearly the love you have for her. As such, the Church is called to admonish those members who are erring so that they may correct themselves and live lives which are pleasing to God. In that duty, they are called to demonstrate the love of Christ and not to act from malice. I really don't know enough to make a clear statement either way, so I am going to have to leave this to you to pray about. If they are making criticisms which are not found in God's Word or their criticisms is not being done in charity, I will say that clearly something is being done very wrongly. Quote: I don't even know what the point of church is anymore really, it feels like a chore that I'd rather push off, and I'm not so sure I even want to join another church now... While it is possible to be saved and not attend a Church, it is not the most healthy condition for a Christian. While we can be sustained in faith merely through reading His Word, it misses out on a very important part of the walk of faith. The Church service provides vital "means of grace" by which God sustains and strengthens our faith in Him. Part of this walk means that we must sometimes deal with family members who do not share our viewpoint. We must be willing to remain charitable even when we disagree with someone. We shouldn't run away simply because we don't see eye to eye. However, if something is seriously wrong we can either take a stand for the Truth even at peril to ourselves or we can go find somewhere where the Truth is taught. It seems that in this case, you may have to opt for the latter if it cannot be avoided.

patronpeter  - planks/eyes   |2008-04-21 19:52:18 thanks for the advice, but i still don't think i wanna go back. an attack from more than one person there just because they need gossip for the sake of gossip is not a reason to make me feel so small. as for the stuff they were accusing me of, as you might know, i live in a parsonage owned by the church, which is also rented out to another person who happens to be male and God forbid a single woman should live with a male (who she is not dating and hardly ever talks to) without being married to him. not to mention, he recently moved his family in (long story) and that just fueled the fire for older members at the church who tried making me look like a home wrecker. as for not seeing eye to eye with other people, i think i do a decent job of respecting other peoples views, as long as it's not an outright attack on me personally. yeah, i'm going to need to do alot of praying, and a lot of thinking about whether or not a structure like church is the right thing for me at this point in my life.

emperorbma   |2008-04-21 20:08:14 Oddly enough, I suspected this kind of issue might be the case just from the little description given. I can elucidate this a bit. I think they are of the teaching that "cohabitation without marriage is sin," without understanding what it actually intends to say. That restriction is mainly geared at this [expletive] culture with all of its idea of sex outside of marriage. I see nothing which says a man and woman cannot share an apartment and in many cases this is acceptable in my opinion. The only thing I would find objectionable is a situation where cohabitation means sharing a bed (in the euphemistic sense) without marriage. This is something that you've made clear is not the case, but we know that busybodies and gossips abound in the Church. One thing to note in this is that gossip is a sin for a good reason. I certainly hope and pray you don't abandon going to Church, but that you find one where you can be at home. (As best as we can in any place in this world, since we're only passing through this world on our way to God...)

emperorbma   |2008-04-21 20:10:18 P.S. I do agree with the statement "cohabitation without marriage is sin," clearly, but I don't accept that blunt and asinine application I just read about.

patronpeter   |2008-04-21 20:18:30 yeah, he's not my type, and the fact that his wife and children now live there is certainly not a situation i wanna screw up for him, which is another reason i'm leaving as soon as i can without screwing (pardon my french) myself financially. ;-)

OrionBlastar  - Yeah and you can't do a   |2008-04-21 21:31:56 Three's Company and say he is gay. :) Sorry pop-culture reference to an old Sitcom with John Ritter and Suzanne Sommers, et all. They needed a third room mate, all had separate bedrooms, two women and one man, but they told the land lord he was gay. They needed him to pay the rent, and he needed an apartment really bad. He had to keep acting gay when the land lord was around, so he land lord wouldn't think that they had sex. The land lord was old fashioned and pre-judged people. But the land lord's wife was smarter and knew the truth that Jack Tripper was just there for a room, wasn't gay, and nothing dirty was going on. But these times college rooms are co-ed, what can you do?

emperorbma   |2008-04-21 22:45:06 There is such a thing as "old fashioned" folks, but there is also, unfortunately, a lot of reinforcement coming from the behavior of people who cannot control their urges and who do use cohabitation as a cover for having sex outside of marriage. I think it is quite right to be on the alert for this behavior, but not right to assume everyone who lives in the same apartment does this.

patronpeter   |2008-04-21 22:49:43 it's actually a really big house, and because of our schedules, i almost never have to see him, which is kinda nice, except for the screaming babies. :-(

emperorbma   |2008-04-21 20:13:45 P.P.S. The Church is comprised of all believers. Even if someone doesn't attend a visible church denomination but does have faith in Christ, they are still a member of the eternal Church of all believers in Christ. I wouldn't downplay the visible institutions, even though they are imperfect manifestations of the eternal, however... they are an important part of our walk and we should not avoid them unnecessarily. [r1]

patronpeter   |2008-04-21 20:16:18 lol, thank you for the p.p.s... i will keep that in mind.

laika  - re:   |2008-04-21 21:13:25 emperorbma wrote: Even if someone doesn't attend a visible church denomination but does have faith in Christ, they are still a member of the eternal Church of all believers in Christ mmmmm! i'm liking the sound of that. preach it, empy, preach it!

wezlo   |2008-04-21 21:28:56 Well, yah, but you don't want to live there - which is what pp is wrestling with - given her temporary status and the pain she's suffered. Church people can really suck. PP, you can come over for lunch in a couple of weeks, my wife and I would have had you over earlier but I've been sick (again, CRAP!) and now I'm heading out of the state for the week. Keep hanging out at circle during your struggles though - at least they'll treat you with respect.

patronpeter   |2008-04-21 21:55:38 Quote: Church people can really suck. yeah, but i did meet two nice people, granted, one of them was only 4... but she was pleasant to sit with. :-) As for lunch, I would love too, plus I didn't really get to talk to your wife much the first time I met her. As for Circle, haven't been there in like a month, but I'll ask the Q

patronpeter  - crap...   |2008-04-21 21:56:22 i accidently hit send before i was done... anywho.. i'll ask the q's if they don't mind me sitting in on service until i find an answer to my church delimma.

wezlo   |2008-04-21 22:07:33 you don't have to ask - go.

patronpeter   |2008-04-21 22:15:16 i don't want to go unwelcome.. er.. unexpected, you know what i mean dude.

wezlo   |2008-04-21 22:18:54 In this case PP - nope. It's Circle of Hope - it's there for people who are seeking to walk with Jesus (many of whom don't even know it yet). Jim and Sarah'll just bop you on the head if you ask permission.

patronpeter   |2008-04-21 22:22:01 O.k... but only because the idea of one of them "bopping" me on the head scares the crap outta me.. reminds me of maxwell's silver hammer or something... btw wez, have i mentioned how awesome you are? ... just don't let it go to your head. ;-P

Jim   |2008-04-22 09:33:16 Sarah and I are Peace Church, there will be no bopping. However, we might sing folks songs in four-part harmony and petition the UN.... Circle always has folks wandering about. The Public Meetings (PM's) are designed to be a convenient entry point for folks who don't know why the hell they're there. And, since most folks are in their twenties, it also works in terms of social issues (we're old-head thirty-somethings). No pressure. And no bopping.

Entity   |2008-04-22 09:47:17 But they do slap each other with fish...

karhu   |2008-04-22 18:22:05 Large trout?

Jim  - re:   |2008-04-22 22:28:59 Entity wrote: But they do slap each other with fish... No. Fish are kept in large, decorative aquariums with tastefully artistic rock work and live plants.

Entity   |2008-04-24 14:12:38 They might post a picture of your catz if Sarah lands her dream job.

OrionBlastar  - Don't worry about dark side churchs and dark side   |2008-04-21 21:23:08 Christianity is about helping out others, not judging them or gossiping about them. You are in what I would call a dark side church with a dark side pastor. The dark side of Christianity is where Christians pre-judge other Christians and gossip about them. Yes they do exist, and yes not every church or pastor is in the dark side. Sadly it is human nature to act that way, always going by perceptions instead of learning the truth and not always judging a book by its cover. Even sinners need help and salvation, not gossip and judging and we are all sinners in truth in some way. Anyway the whole Iraq war was decided on perceptions that Iraq had WMDs and a link to 9/11, which was later proven to be false. It wasn't just George W. Bush who had that perception, it was a majority of Congress as well as most of the USA as well. It was like our whole military intelligence was based on gossip from the MI5 in Europe that Saddam had weapons grade uranium from another country or used reactor pipes to enrich uranium to weapons grade. But only one person in the department of energy figured out those pipes were the wrong size to be used to enrich uranium and that the memo looked false to him, but 11 people outvoted him at the DOE and gave the report to the White House and Congress that Iraq had WMDs and ties to 9/11. Look at the big mess that it caused, and many are covering up their mistakes by saying Bush tricked them, when in reality we had flawed intelligence that was basically gossip from the MI5 and people didn't know what the right pipes for enriching uranium were. So now our economy takes a tumble and nobody wants to admit that they messed up and made a mistake, so everyone blames each other or Bush instead of taking responsibility for their own decisions. Your current church is making the same kind of mistake with you, and chances are they make the same mistake with others and will eventually suffer for it. So they base on gossip and judge you for it, and even the pastor seems to be in on it. Don't let a dark side church and dark side pastor ruin your relationship with God. If they keep attacking you, vote with your feet and find another church. Nobody should have to put up with that. If they do that to enough people, they will drive away members and then suffer financially for it. Is it really worth it to you to stick around there and suffer more for it? You'd be better to watch cable or satellite TV and tune into EWTN when they broadcast their Sunday mass on Sunday morning, nobody there will judge you and reject you, and you'll still get a mass service but say a prayer instead of receiving communion. I do that when I am too sick to go to church due to my disabilities. One of my old churches I was attacked for being mentally ill by other members, it is not like I decided to be mentally ill, its an illness. I can't help it if my depression or schizo affective disorder makes it hard for me to smile, I try sometimes, but I suffer from flat effect caused by depression or schizo affective disorder. It is like having a stroke and not being able to smile. I also get panic attacks as well.

patronpeter   |2008-04-21 22:09:37 Thanks for the advice, but I don't think their bad people, there are just a few too many people there with old skool ideals and see me as a misfit, mismatch, miscreant of the church.. but that's o.k., they'll change if they want to, or not. I just need to find a place that's o.k. for me being me, a solo-roller and a little crazy. ;-)

holmegm  - My head must be thick this morning ...   |2008-04-22 05:57:05 ... (yes, I know, "thicker than usual"? Anyway ...) What's the situation, exactly? You are living in your church's parsonage, which it is renting out to both you and an unrelated man? And some in the congregation find the living arrangement unseemly, and are being unkind or even cruel about it? Is that the gist of the situation? Or have I misread it?

emperorbma   |2008-04-22 11:27:34 That and they don't seem to like the fact that she comes to Church alone. (why?)

patronpeter  - it's the size of a church that matters?   |2008-04-22 16:10:49 yes and yes. i dunno, my pastor even made it a point to tell us to bring someone with us if we were coming alone, he didn't say that to me, but to all the congregation. it's a small church, everyone knows everyone, but everyone doesn't know me, that might be part of the problem.

emperorbma   |2008-04-22 16:38:52 Somehow, I don't think he's trying to say that church size matters, though. Rather, I think he is saying that we should be sharing the Good News with our neighbors and one way to do this is to bring people who are willing to come along to church to see what we teach and believe. At my church it's clear that we aren't going to go and compromise on what we believe just to get new members, but we also drop the occasional "bring a friend" now and then because it helps remind us that we should be sharing the message and not just sitting on it.

patronpeter   |2008-04-22 16:52:47 yeah, i understand, but when your one of the few people that comes alone to a church that is very family-oriented, it can be akward. of course, i'm all about the Good News sharing, though, i don't think i'm doing a very good job these days, most, if not all, of my friends get offended by any mention of chrisitanity, though, i think i've mentioned that issue once already before. :-(

emperorbma   |2008-04-22 17:04:46 Yeah, that can be upsetting if they want "family" only. Some people just don't have it or don't want it and are no less Christian. As for the witnessing thing... It's all right, our job is simply to be a witness to Christ. We don't even need to go around preaching at everyone, but we can live a life which shows Christ's love in whatever we do, be it as a scientist or as a doctor or as a tax consultant. It is not we who convert or bring growth in faith, but the Holy Spirit, and we are privileged to be His emissaries.

patronpeter  - It's Dogma   |2008-04-22 17:14:01 Yeah, I think I got somethin' that'll real um' in. My very own dashboard Buddy Christ came in the mail today, I'm so happy!!!

patronpeter   |2008-04-22 16:12:37 seems like you've got the gist buddy, not so thick headed after all, eh?

Only registered users can write comments!

Powered by !JoomlaComment 3.20

3.20 Copyright (C) 2007 Alain Georgette / Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Hliva. All rights reserved."