Make a Donation

Lots of time and effort goes into creating and maintaining this site. If we've helped you, consider making a donation.  

Current Poll

I'm thinking that the new pope should be...
 

Support Us!

Buy theophiles merchandise from our store!

The Big Reveal
Literature, Etc.
Written by laika   
Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:46

At The New Yorker (book review):

[...]Revelation, far from being meant as a hallucinatory prophecy, is actually a coded account of events that were happening at the time John was writing. It’s essentially a political cartoon about the crisis in the Jesus movement in the late first century, with Jerusalem fallen and the Temple destroyed and the Saviour, despite his promises, still not back. All the imagery of the rapt and the raptured and the rest that the “Left Behind” books have made a staple for fundamentalist Christians represents contemporary people and events, and was well understood in those terms by the original audience. Revelation is really like one of those old-fashioned editorial drawings where Labor is a pair of overalls and a hammer, and Capital a bag of money in a tuxedo and top hat, and Economic Justice a woman in flowing robes, with a worried look. “When John says that ‘the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear’s and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth,’ he revises Daniel’s vision to picture Rome as the worst empire of all,” [Elaine] Pagels writes. “When he says that the beast’s seven heads are ‘seven kings,’ John probably means the Roman emperors who ruled from the time of Augustus until his own time.” As for the creepy 666, the “number of the beast,” the original text adds, helpfully, “Let anyone with understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person.” This almost certainly refers—by way of Gematria, the Jewish numerological system—to the contemporary Emperor Nero. Even John’s vision of a great mountain exploding is a topical reference to the recent eruption of Vesuvius, in C.E. 79. Revelation is a highly colored picture of the present, not a prophecy of the future.

Comments
Search
laika  - Either/or?   |2012-02-28 18:04:57
What think you, fellow Theophiles? Could the Revelation be both specific to its time and a prophecy of the future? Must it be one or the other?
emperorbma   |2012-02-28 18:31:14
Do you want my personal or official position?
laika   |2012-02-28 19:22:26
Both/and?
emperorbma   |2012-02-29 21:07:46
Official is that it is future tense in an Amillennialistic fashion. Personal is exactly what you have said "both/and," though still in an Amillennialistic fashion.

Official is because that's the official position of my relevant denomination, but as I see it having parts of Revelation be "technically fulfilled" does not, in my opinion, void the relevance for the future Return of the King. The way I see it, stuff like the "Virgin with the Seven Stars" is clearly referring to Mary and the incarnation of Christ, for example, but the Lamb descending with the Angels is clearly future tense...
SteveGus   |2012-02-29 16:25:53
Let me put it this way: we know that some of the Psalms are both illustrations of incidents in the life of David, and prophesies of Jesus. I don't see that Revelations is necessarily different.
whitemice  - Yep.   |2012-03-02 06:17:44
What he said.

I'll admit that on a personal level I've come to dislike the book of Revelations. What else has engendered so much rancor, stupidity, terrible movies, and distracting debate (perhaps just so there is something to discuss with no practical implications). And the cults breeding the sacred red cows just make us look like occultist whack-jobs (I believe in prophecy; I also do NOT believe Almighty God Who Commanded The Stars To Be Who Commands Hosts Of Angels And Counts The Sparrows needs my help to bring something to be)

There are three reliable ways to get me to slink out of a room to find something else to do.
(a) "debate" the abortion issue
(b) "discuss" Revelations
(c) "debate" the position of Israel

If all the heat poured onto those topics had been aimed at improving agricultural yield there might not be a hungry person left in the world. We'd be wading through bean sprouts just to get from the house to the car.

Back on topic - as for interpretation I think Revelation is a mixed bag and the proposed interpretation (which isn't new) can explain a lot of it. Other parts make less sense to be in that context. Or maybe it goes both ways.
emperorbma  - parousia of Christ as "tikkun olam"   |2012-03-02 09:29:44
While, in the end, Luther had no trouble using the Revelation of John as Scripture, he gets a lot of flak for reigniting the ancient question of whether Revelations is even canonical. The primary importance of having it as a canonical book (and, probably, why Luther still used it as such) is that it demonstrates that Christ is, ultimately, the victor over sin and the "repairing of the world" (תיקון עולם; "tikkun olam") that the Jewish people so long for from the Messiah is to be accomplished at His return, not through some political machinations such as rebuilding the Temple in Jerusalem.

As Jesus Himself teaches in Luke 13:34-36, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."" (ברוך הבא בשם יהוה) The events of Palm Sunday itself echo with both past and future significance; the same which Revelations describes in its phantasmagoric representation...
PineHall  - The Best Revelation Study   |2012-03-02 10:07:47
Over the years I have been in several Revelation studies. Each one had a different way of looking at Revelation. One class was taught by a retired Lutheran pastor who when he went on vacation another retired Lutheran pastor took the class and taught it with a different interpretation (though still amillennialist) than the one leading the class. So I hear where you are coming from.

The best Revelation study was taught by a Lutheran school teacher, who kept the focus on Jesus and his work. IMHO that is the best way to teach Revelation. He allowed for a lot of discussion of the details but he always came back to Jesus and the Gospel. The only negative of the class was it was too long, lasting over a year.
laika  - Of Babies and bathwater   |2012-03-08 23:49:30
I must say that the Xdot/TheoPhiles community has over the years opened me to a more both/and view of The Book of Revelation, among other things.
Only registered users can write comments!

3.20 Copyright (C) 2007 Alain Georgette / Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Hliva. All rights reserved."

 

Our valuable member laika has been with us since Thursday, 03 April 2008.

Show Other Articles


Statistics

Members : 40697
Content : 1259
Content View Hits : 6023629

Who's Online

We have 70 guests and 18 members online
  • xemmexzh
  • emicickexesia
  • gehjqaks
  • hqizfzuc
  • rafhypya
  • erulleymn
  • Irrasiarkkict
  • sotaSmapmerma
  • AGrieksNike
  • kelyjeei
  • ordefeava
  • Rexyhyday
  • Vikekbe
  • gkinefbj
  • bzomqael
  • vupzlhox
  • ttjkpsss
  • Indiliomo